To Be Black, Woman and Alive

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6 Comments

  1. So… people have preferences and this is a problem?

  2. YOu might want to read this https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=bxEWBAAAQBAJ&pg=PA114&lpg=PA114&dq=do+black+men+find+black+women+more+or+less+attractive+than+white+women&source=bl&ots=yFMo944Rut&sig=0xOHZdyt5kCsBD0mO7cSkGEr714&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAzgKahUKEwjV1sTz1ZfIAhVJSRoKHZooAy4#v=onepage&q=do%20black%20men%20find%20black%20women%20more%20or%20less%20attractive%20than%20white%20women&f=false

    Ok, lets look at this through the medium of ‘problematic constructs’.

    First words are ‘I’m just saying, that if she ain’t got a bootie, I ain’t trying to hit it.’
    Shaming people for their personal preferences right there in the opening shots. I hope this ‘poem’ isn’t going to degrade into a list of complaints about other peoples personal preferences and how they affect these two girls and their sex lives.

    “A nigga’s biggest weakness is a white girl with a fat ass”
    Generalization’s do not a convincing argument make. I also think that there is a core of people out there that would find that racist.

    “Black girls need to watch out, because white girls is winning.”
    Are these people complaining that they arent getting enough sex? These people could quite easily make the same jump across the social divide as their male counterparts. The fact that they don’t and are complaining about it indicates that they have their own personal preferences and are consider them more important than other peoples.

    “I don’t fuck with black girls”
    I’m going to ask this question, and I’m going to ask you to try and not just say ‘patriarchy’, ‘racism’ or some other gender studies buzz word; why would someone say this? Why would a black man say this? Why would a Black woman say this? A white man, a white woman, an asian woman or man, etc? Also, why is it a problem?

    “I know four different types of hydrocortizone by heart, I have a pintrest board dedicated to lemon juice recipes for lightening skin.”
    Ok, why is she doing this? What is the end goal? To get with someone who doesn’t value her for the colour of her skin and only wants a white girl? Why is she chasing this dream? If you want me to believe that this is a trend throughout all black male culture then that’s both racist and sexist and I’m betting almost totally without evidence. Attractiveness is totally subjective. Here’s an article (https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-scientific-methodological-objections-to-the-Psychology-Today-article-Why-Are-Black-Women-Less-Physically-Attractive-Than-Other-Women-being-removed-from-the-publication) I’m sure you’re .probably familiar with because it spouts much the same drivel. And here’s an artcle that takes a great big dump on it because its all hokum (http://www.colorlines.com/articles/pseudoscience-black-women-are-less-attractive).

    “I don’t like that Black Power shit”
    I play with toy soldiers. I’m happy to admit that. Take a look at my blog, you’ll see. My girlfriend doesnt like it – I tend to talk about my toy soldiers a bit too often. When someone is saying ‘I dont like that shit that you do’ I tend to get the message that I’m going on about it a bit too often. Also, there are markedly different versions of Black Power – the Tamil Tigers and the Black Panthers are at one end and the spectrum and the Black Arts movement and the Students committee are on the other end. Now, you’ll be able to shoot the breeze with most people from those movements, but the crazies and the radicals will be found at one end.

    “To be born black is to be born knowing that your beauty does not belong to you”
    Please explain this statement. It makes no sense. Does it mean that the concept of beauty that these two cling to is based on a societal whim? Thats pretty much how all notions of beauty are based. Men have it the same, whites have it the same, hispanics have it the same. Welcome to your first day as a person in the world. Is it shitty? Sure, but the measure of a persons character is based on how they deal with adversity.

    “Desirable to your own kind”
    I get that they have a preference. That’s fine. That really is fine, everyone has a preference. Beauty is subjective and no two people are going to agree totally on what is beauty or what they are attracted to. Come over to the UK, we have lots of nice black singles over here.

    “Protect men who hate me”
    I’m not going to say that this woman’s lived experience is wrong. I dont know how she grew up. I am going to say that, once again, a generalization does not make a good argument.

    “Behind every great man is the woman that taught him how to load the ammunition”
    I realize they’re being symbolic here. But, again, generalization. I would love to see their sources for some of these.

    “The actual purpose of her mouth”
    I hope this is a quote. If it is then they are an asshole. However, I can find nasty quotes all day long to help me prove my point; lets say I wanted to make you feel disobliging towards chickens – I could find me some nasty ass quotes from people about chickens.

    “In college a boy said he wouldn’t date a black girl”
    So? If i only dated men during college then that’s my choice. This is really just sounding like they’re pissed about not getting laid.

    “As if his sister/mother wasn’t black”
    again, so what? I have a buddy that only dates Asian chicks because he’s more attracted to them than anyone else.

    “To be woman and black is to be magic, is to be the witch that wouldn’t burn”
    ‘You didn’t reject me, I rejected you!’

    “Survive the white man, with their needles and nooses”
    The British Navy blockaded Africa and stopped the slave trade. I get that the Americas are different. Not all white people are as you believe.

    “My very existence is defiance”
    Defying what? Getting het up about imagined injustices is a very real problem you Yanks have.

    “The colour of happily ever after”
    This is their own personal interpretation.

    • So much to engage you on here. I will tell you what I understand from your commentary – firstly, that you are not black and not female. I have not Googled you, but that’s what’s coming out in not only your diction but thought process. You speak from a place of privilege – you are most probably a white man. It’s good that you are engaging these issues. You would do well to listen and to be open to the fact that your point of view – uncommon as it is – is not the only one. Secondly, it stands out that you are not completely aware of the many fights against social injustice, especially looking at the self-determination of black people. (Note however, that blackness is not a mono-lithic experience, regardless of the golden thread that connects the black experience world over). That being said, I will make an effort to debate your thoughts and not let this discourse spew into argumentum ad hominem.

      Firstly, note that this poem shares the lived experiences of these women, and many other like them. You have no right to invalidate that reality.

      The issue of preference is subjective and this poem is NOT about that. This poem is about attitudes and prejudices that some black men (in America) have against black women and have often expressed those points of view as a means to degrade black women. If people find this poem racist, well, that’s their reading of it. Frankly, this is not possible because racism comes from a place of power and black women, yes, in this patriarchal and racist world, do not have that kind of institutional power to be racist. You CANNOT dismiss patriarchy and racism in your reading of this poem. Otherwise you lost the whole plot. And by the way, confronting patriarchy and racism is not fashionable, nor is it a newly-found buzz. It’s a human issue.

      Do not make mistake of universality when it comes to people’s nuanced, lived experiences. Because universality takes away the very real context. So your toy soldiers analogy is nothing different from Annie Lennox saying of Billie Holiday’s Strange Fruit, ‘And because of what I’ve seen around the world, I know that this theme, this subject of violence and bigotry, hatred, violent acts of mankind against ourselves. This is a theme.” http://gawker.com/annie-lennox-whitewashes-explanation-of-strange-fruit-1650325025 Er, no.

      “To be born black is to be born knowing that your beauty does not belong to you” – you ask what this means. Yet you quote a passage from a book that talks about the standards of beauty being dictacted by whiteness? That passage says enough about our problematic standards of beauty. Read it again. Especially in the post-civil rights era and post-colonialism era. If it still does not explain what the poets mean, accept that you don’t want to understand and move on. Not to argue the person – you invalidating that statement and refusing to understand this comes from a place of privilege. Check it.

      “Behind every great man is the woman that taught him how to load the ammunition.” If you understand the symbolism in this statement, then you know that to ask for examples of women teaching men how to load the ammunition is just you being a troll.

      It will do you good to read on intersectionality. A good place to start is here: http://socialdifference.columbia.edu/files/socialdiff/projects/Article__Mapping_the_Margins_by_Kimblere_Crenshaw.pdf

      If none of what I have shared here makes sense – if you cannot move away from universality to delve into the contexts of people’s experiences and their lived realities, then sir you need not engage in this debate because you are willful in your ignorance.

      Also,

      PS: “The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.” – Albert Camus

      PPS: I am not going to engage you on the pseudo-science articles you shared. Quoting Akiba Solomon, “I resent using my time on Earth to debunk bullshit.” Frankly, that drivel does nothing more than advance the notion of white superiority. It is only sad that they have an audience in the first place. Again, sad reality of our world. Also, read this: http://www.racialicious.com/2011/05/17/how-to-debunk-pseudo-science-articles-about-race-in-five-easy-steps/

  3. YOu might want to read this https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=bxEWBAAAQBAJ&pg=PA114&lpg=PA114&dq=do+black+men+find+black+women+more+or+less+attractive+than+white+women&source=bl&ots=yFMo944Rut&sig=0xOHZdyt5kCsBD0mO7cSkGEr714&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAzgKahUKEwjV1sTz1ZfIAhVJSRoKHZooAy4#v=onepage&q=do%20black%20men%20find%20black%20women%20more%20or%20less%20attractive%20than%20white%20women&f=false

    Ok, lets look at this through the medium of ‘problematic constructs’.

    First words are ‘I’m just saying, that if she ain’t got a bootie, I ain’t trying to hit it.’
    Shaming people for their personal preferences right there in the opening shots. I hope this ‘poem’ isn’t going to degrade into a list of complaints about other peoples personal preferences and how they affect these two girls and their sex lives.

    “A nigga’s biggest weakness is a white girl with a fat ass”
    Generalization’s do not a convincing argument make. I also think that there is a core of people out there that would find that racist.

    “Black girls need to watch out, because white girls is winning.”
    Are these people complaining that they arent getting enough sex? These people could quite easily make the same jump across the social divide as their male counterparts. The fact that they don’t and are complaining about it indicates that they have their own personal preferences and are consider them more important than other peoples.

    “I don’t fuck with black girls”
    I’m going to ask this question, and I’m going to ask you to try and not just say ‘patriarchy’, ‘racism’ or some other gender studies buzz word; why would someone say this? Why would a black man say this? Why would a Black woman say this? A white man, a white woman, an asian woman or man, etc? Also, why is it a problem?

    “I know four different types of hydrocortizone by heart, I have a pintrest board dedicated to lemon juice recipes for lightening skin.”
    Ok, why is she doing this? What is the end goal? To get with someone who doesn’t value her for the colour of her skin and only wants a white girl? Why is she chasing this dream? If you want me to believe that this is a trend throughout all black male culture then that’s both racist and sexist and I’m betting almost totally without evidence. Attractiveness is totally subjective. Here’s an article (https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-scientific-methodological-objections-to-the-Psychology-Today-article-Why-Are-Black-Women-Less-Physically-Attractive-Than-Other-Women-being-removed-from-the-publication) I’m sure you’re .probably familiar with because it spouts much the same drivel. And here’s an artcle that takes a great big dump on it because its all hokum (http://www.colorlines.com/articles/pseudoscience-black-women-are-less-attractive).

    “I don’t like that Black Power shit”
    I play with toy soldiers. I’m happy to admit that. Take a look at my blog, you’ll see. My girlfriend doesnt like it – I tend to talk about my toy soldiers a bit too often. When someone is saying ‘I dont like that shit that you do’ I tend to get the message that I’m going on about it a bit too often. Also, there are markedly different versions of Black Power – the Tamil Tigers and the Black Panthers are at one end and the spectrum and the Black Arts movement and the Students committee are on the other end. Now, you’ll be able to shoot the breeze with most people from those movements, but the crazies and the radicals will be found at one end.

    “To be born black is to be born knowing that your beauty does not belong to you”
    Please explain this statement. It makes no sense. Does it mean that the concept of beauty that these two cling to is based on a societal whim? Thats pretty much how all notions of beauty are based. Men have it the same, whites have it the same, hispanics have it the same. Welcome to your first day as a person in the world. Is it shitty? Sure, but the measure of a persons character is based on how they deal with adversity.

    “Desirable to your own kind”
    I get that they have a preference. That’s fine. That really is fine, everyone has a preference. Beauty is subjective and no two people are going to agree totally on what is beauty or what they are attracted to. Come over to the UK, we have lots of nice black singles over here.

    “Protect men who hate me”
    I’m not going to say that this woman’s lived experience is wrong. I dont know how she grew up. I am going to say that, once again, a generalization does not make a good argument.

    “Behind every great man is the woman that taught him how to load the ammunition”
    I realize they’re being symbolic here. But, again, generalization. I would love to see their sources for some of these.

    “The actual purpose of her mouth”
    I hope this is a quote. If it is then they are an asshole. However, I can find nasty quotes all day long to help me prove my point; lets say I wanted to make you feel disobliging towards chickens – I could find me some nasty ass quotes from people about chickens.

    “In college a boy said he wouldn’t date a black girl”
    So? If i only dated men during college then that’s my choice. This is really just sounding like they’re pissed about not getting laid.

    “As if his sister/mother wasn’t black”
    again, so what? I have a buddy that only dates Asian chicks because he’s more attracted to them than anyone else.

    “To be woman and black is to be magic, is to be the witch that wouldn’t burn”
    ‘You didn’t reject me, I rejected you!’

    “Survive the white man, with their needles and nooses”
    The British Navy blockaded Africa and stopped the slave trade. I get that the Americas are different. Not all white people are as you believe.

    “My very existence is defiance”
    Defying what? Getting het up about imagined injustices is a very real problem you Yanks have.

    “The colour of happily ever after”
    This is their own personal interpretation.

    • So much to engage you on here. I will tell you what I understand from your commentary – firstly, that you are not black and not female. I have not Googled you, but that’s what’s coming out in not only your diction but thought process. You speak from a place of privilege – you are most probably a white man. It’s good that you are engaging these issues. You would do well to listen and to be open to the fact that your point of view – uncommon as it is – is not the only one. Secondly, it stands out that you are not completely aware of the many fights against social injustice, especially looking at the self-determination of black people. (Note however, that blackness is not a mono-lithic experience, regardless of the golden thread that connects the black experience world over). That being said, I will make an effort to debate your thoughts and not let this discourse spew into argumentum ad hominem.

      Firstly, note that this poem shares the lived experiences of these women, and many other like them. You have no right to invalidate that reality.

      The issue of preference is subjective and this poem is NOT about that. This poem is about attitudes and prejudices that some black men (in America) have against black women and have often expressed those points of view as a means to degrade black women. If people find this poem racist, well, that’s their reading of it. Frankly, this is not possible because racism comes from a place of power and black women, yes, in this patriarchal and racist world, do not have that kind of institutional power to be racist. You CANNOT dismiss patriarchy and racism in your reading of this poem. Otherwise you lost the whole plot. And by the way, confronting patriarchy and racism is not fashionable, nor is it a newly-found buzz. It’s a human issue.

      Do not make mistake of universality when it comes to people’s nuanced, lived experiences. Because universality takes away the very real context. So your toy soldiers analogy is nothing different from Annie Lennox saying of Billie Holiday’s Strange Fruit, ‘And because of what I’ve seen around the world, I know that this theme, this subject of violence and bigotry, hatred, violent acts of mankind against ourselves. This is a theme.” http://gawker.com/annie-lennox-whitewashes-explanation-of-strange-fruit-1650325025 Er, no.

      “To be born black is to be born knowing that your beauty does not belong to you” – you ask what this means. Yet you quote a passage from a book that talks about the standards of beauty being dictacted by whiteness? That passage says enough about our problematic standards of beauty. Read it again. Especially in the post-civil rights era and post-colonialism era. If it still does not explain what the poets mean, accept that you don’t want to understand and move on. Not to argue the person – you invalidating that statement and refusing to understand this comes from a place of privilege. Check it.

      “Behind every great man is the woman that taught him how to load the ammunition.” If you understand the symbolism in this statement, then you know that to ask for examples of women teaching men how to load the ammunition is just you being a troll.

      It will do you good to read on intersectionality. A good place to start is here: http://socialdifference.columbia.edu/files/socialdiff/projects/Article__Mapping_the_Margins_by_Kimblere_Crenshaw.pdf

      If none of what I have shared here makes sense – if you cannot move away from universality to delve into the contexts of people’s experiences and their lived realities, then sir you need not engage in this debate because you are willful in your ignorance.

      Also,

      PS: “The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.” – Albert Camus

      PPS: I am not going to engage you on the pseudo-science articles you shared. Quoting Akiba Solomon, “I resent using my time on Earth to debunk bullshit.” Frankly, that drivel does nothing more than advance the notion of white superiority. It is only sad that they have an audience in the first place. Again, sad reality of our world. Also, read this: http://www.racialicious.com/2011/05/17/how-to-debunk-pseudo-science-articles-about-race-in-five-easy-steps/

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